Daniel Cioli, before the vote in Brazil: “It is obvious that Lula is more committed to Latin American integration and has a better relationship with Cristina”

St. Paul.— When Only one day left for voting in the middle Luis Inacio Lula da Silva Y Jair BolsonaroAmbassador of Argentina to Brazil, Daniel Cioli, resulting in a permanent equilibrium between the two candidates. He boasts of his good relationship with the president and highlights progress on business matters, but the Workers’ Party (PT) leader concedes. “Great commitment to Latin American integration with Mercosur and a great personal relationship with Cristina Kirchner” When asked about their preferences.

In an interview Nation At the Argentine embassy in Sao Paulo, Cioli noted why Alberto Fernandez and Bolsonaro. They could not arrange a bilateral meeting (“There’s no need to force it”), spoke of a tough election campaign in Brazil Bolsonaro’s harsh criticism of the government included, and about the president’s possible visit to Brazil in the face of a possible victory for Lula in the second round.

– How do you think the Bolsonaro presidency has affected the relationship between Brazil and Argentina?

– Relationships can change. When Alberto Fernandez entrusted me with the task of taking over the embassy here, it was with a goal and he told me “do what you have to do, but think about what’s best for Argentina and rebuild the relationship with Brazil”. When we go objectively to the developments they become more clear and strong. I did some exercise Emotional diplomacy. In this second phase, my major objective is a larger bilateral agreement Integration. I discussed with the government and with Lula. I told him, “There was indeed a great political and ideological cohesion in your government, but we lack when we go to the commercial aspect”, and the fundamental solution will largely happen when we start exporting energy. Gas pipeline completion time.

Despite this business integration, why couldn’t Alberto Fernandez and Bolsonaro hold a bilateral meeting?

-They held meetings within the MERCOSUR framework, but were not necessarily forced to do so. In short, my role here was an executive, business ambassador and he empowered me. One day he told President Bolsonaro, “When you talk to Daniel, pretend you’re talking to me, they’re my eyes, my ears,” something like that. Y Bolsonaro feels that by talking to me, he too has a direct dialogue. The truth is, he accepted me every time I wanted to see him. I have been to Planaldo 14 times.

Have you been affected by Bolsonaro and his entourage’s harsh criticism of the government and Fernandez in this campaign?

-I have not left my mold of what I think is best for Argentina. Y Better not to get into verbal escalation, It will not create more investment or more jobs for me, rather it will complicate things. I am very practical. I understand that this has to do with Bolsonaro’s campaign strategy. Sometimes I tell him half jokingly and half seriously. “Stop kidding yourselves that Argentina is communism or socialism.” I was sometimes able to enter from another place, in a very simple language.

There is talk in Brazil and Buenos Aires that Alberto Fernandez may come to San Pablo in the event of a possible victory for Lula. Are you planning?

I don’t know, it will be decided there.

Do you think it will be viewed favorably by the Bolsonaro government if it passes?

-According to the law here in case of change of president the change is regulated. So it is logical that in a transition we also start talking about bilateral agendas. We need to humanize politics a little more Think of the personal bond that Alberto has, coming to see him on the campaign trail while he was in prison, and Lula’s thanks to Alberto for being president of CELAC. If you met him under those circumstances, why can’t they see each other now? But First let’s wait for the election results and the hours that follow.

-If it’s the other way around, will Bolsonaro win in the end? In Argentina, Kirchnerism campaigned hard for Lula. Will it affect relations between countries?

– No, I showed that we progress by finding common ground. It will be a continuation and will intensify what is going on.

Will that good relationship with Bolsonaro ultimately affect your position in Lula’s government?

– No, on the contrary. I mentioned it to Bolsonaro several times when I visited Lula at his home before he decided to run. Then Lula told me something amazing. Three conditions had to be met for me to be a candidate: First, I knew I was going to do tremendous physical work. Second, I don’t want to be a candidate if I’m not sure I can win, and third, I can run a good government. And apparently he’s determined, and if you notice his attitude, he’s handsome. These are the things I discussed Lula understood that as ambassador to protect Argentina I had to have a better relationship with the current government.

Do you have a preference for either of the two candidates to win on Sunday?

–It is obvious that Lula is more committed to Latin American integration with Mercosur and a better personal relationship with Cristina. And with me, I’m a grateful person, I can’t forget when he went to campaign for me in 2015. I speak directly to everyone around him, like Celso Amorim. I have a very good relationship.

Do you think Alberto Fernandez should be a candidate for re-election in 2023 and should he run for internal elections?

-He has all the institutional and constitutional powers and he will come with all his experience, his intelligence and his demonstrated ability. Maybe things are understood over time and people read the silences. Alberto is a deeply democratic person, patient, tolerant and highly responsible. It seeks to preserve unity in large sectors such as the Frente de Todos… Now the topic of PASOs is much debated, in which I am in favor.

-Why do you think the cracks increased during this decree?

The epidemic has left the community very sensitive to their own lives and politics. Take a story: When I visit Lula at home in São Paulo, at one point she asks me, “Can you explain to me about Mili?” That caught my attention. And he asked me to send a text in Portuguese because he was analyzing these kinds of events in other parts of the world. If we talk about crack in Argentina, here is a super crack, Because the terms of yesterday’s debate, personal animosity, aggression, accusations, the words they used.

– You mentioned Milei, do you think it could be a phenomenon like Bolsonaro in Brazil?

– I see that they have enlightened the most important segment of the population with the concept of freedom, not just economics, and they capture, attract and mobilize them. And there are manifestations of strengthening democracy. And we see other world events happening in that direction. Without fighting them and denying them, As Lula did, you need to understand and push yourself to reach those voters.